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 No.4352

i'm not sure where else i could possibly ask about this without feeling like everyone who sees this will think i'm insane, ha.

do any of you guys feel like you use guro to help cope with self hatred, or self harm? i've tried to research a connection between low self esteem and gore fantasies, but i couldn't find anything.

i'm a 17 year old girl and ever since i was in 7th grade, i've fantasized about being brutally murdered and raped as a means to deal with my mental health. (being beheaded, stabbed, burned alive, etc.) i think i do this because i see myself as someone who should be punished, who deserves to be hurt in the worst possible ways. guro actually isn't sexual for me, but rather just a sort of self medication that helps me repress my self harming desires, as my parents don't believe in psychiatry and the use of medication for mental health.

tl;dr do you think you like gore because of self hatred, or is there something seriously wrong with me?

 No.4353

As a person both interested in guro and self-hating, I'd have to say that a lot of my self-hate isn't expressed in my attraction to death. However, I have gone though periods of time when I would have very dark and disturbing daydreams, much like a person would have a nightmare. Dreams of me being brutalized or physically/emotionally destroyed by strangers or even close friends.

I've never understood why I do it, aside from a strange feeling of catharsis that I get with it.

It's almost certainly not 'healthy' to imagine yourself being brutalized. If you can't get the help you need from your family, seeking help outside of your family isn't a bad or wrong thing. You should especially seek help if you ever start seriously considering enacting your fantasies on yourself in reality.

Please try and understand that there are people who care about you, even if they don't really know you and even if you don't know them. There are people that will want to help you.

 No.4355

Wow, hey there anon!
Fellow 17-year-old girl here with victim POV rape and torture fantasies - I feel like in my case, though, while some of my depraved fantasies are rooted in self hatred/abuse, a significant portion of it stems from daddy issues/growing up in a broken home/all the cliche dark backstory bullshit.
While I fantasise about being brutally raped and tortured by strangers, my fantasies often have a theme around being kidnapped and "kept" by strange older men (indicator one) and "loved" in some weird abusive way (indicator two - inb4 playing armchair psychologist with myself, I have no experience with real father figure love etc so that must be how it's supposed to work, at least in the idea of some weird subconscious part of my head?). There's also a big aspect of psychological torture or manipulation in both my violent fantasies and my less violent ones.

But, yeah, the whole physical torture and abuse thing I fantasise a lot about (despite low physical pain tolerance/threshold and dislike of physical pain!) is definitely, at least in part due to a self hatred thing.

I feel like there's a bit of difference between my fantasies that are primarily driven by self hatred, and the ones that are driven by some sad urge to be "loved" and "wanted", though.

 No.4358

>>4352
Liker other times I will say that this is most likely not self hatred.
This is suicidal tendency especially if you mention self harm.
I think you are under pressure or in the situation which you see no exit and you dream about death as only possible solution.

Your parents are right for not believing in psychiatry , because this bogus science is not even close in success rate to what ancient religion and magic can do. Exorcist will do far better job than psychiatrist. LOL

 No.4359

If you think you need help, GET IT.

Your parents cannot stop you.

 No.4361

op here! thank you all for your thoughts!

there have been times i have thought about telling some of my friends about my thoughts for emotional support, but i've backed out of it due to fear of what they would think. but i doubt i could talk to my parents about this, so i'll just have to take a deep breath and get over my paranoia - i know none of my friends would start to hate me if i told them.

the point about suicide did remind me of something, though. when i was younger (around 5th grade i think) i started thinking about suicide a lot, though i never attempted it. (i have to admit, i was a bit edgy then.) i do think most of what around that time shaped my low self esteem and self hatred. i guess at some point i decided that thinking about others hurting me is better than me hurting myself? who knows.

and don't worry, i have a very low pain tolerance, and am a little weak-willed, so i would never go through with my gore fantasies lol.

 No.4378

>>4358
>This is suicidal tendency especially if you mention self harm.
Self-harm has barely anything to do with actual suicide. For most people it's either a call for help, or a way to relieve stress, as the intention is to temporarily feel better and/or mark yourself, which is supposed to make them keep living on, rather than die.

 No.4379

>>4378
No it is very strongly related to suicide.
the proof is that self hammers do seek pain, they seek HARM as self destruction and this is like partial suicide.
Self hammers are literally destroying themselves permanently and there is no way back if you were just interested in stress relief or some strong feelings you woud use some way which cause no permanent damage
those those people do exact opposite they use razor blades that cause almost no pain at all but damage is enormous.
skewering your hand with needle woud be far more painful and free of any permanent damage

 No.4382

>>4379
>Self hammers are literally destroying themselves permanently
No, they're not. That would be suicide.

>if you were just interested in stress relief or some strong feelings you woud use some way which cause no permanent damage

those those people do exact opposite they use razor blades that cause almost no pain at all but damage is enormous.
That's what a lot of former self-harmers regret the most. They were destroying their bodies just for temporary comfort. Is it worth in the long run? Not at all. Does it feel pleasant at the moment? Of course.

>skewering your hand with needle woud be far more painful and free of any permanent damage

Personally, I find needles kinda scary and don't use them. I'm not speaking for others, as I've read about people using them for self-harm. It's not uncommon.

It might be tied to suicide, but in a much more roundabout way than you think.

 No.4383

>>4382
>>No, they're not. That would be suicide.
This is slow suicide. and maybe not as much as physical suicide but suicide of soul, because self-harmer is killing his own future.
Every time you cut yourself you know that there will be scar left, your functionality will be impaired.

>>That's what a lot of former self-harmers regret the most. They were destroying their bodies just for temporary comfort. Is it worth in the long run? Not at all. Does it feel pleasant at the moment? Of course.


word regret is kinda inappropriate here because when he was doing that he knew about all consequances and he has safe alternatives. thus entire intent was to this outcome.

>>Personally, I find needles kinda scary and don't use them. I'm not speaking for others, as I've read about people using them for self-harm. It's not uncommon.

This is plain stupid excuse. cutting yourself with razor blade is in order of magnitude more extreme than using needle.
Needles leave no permanent damage and this would not even count as self harm. You can play with them as much as you like and enjoy as much pain as you want. So this is ideal solution.

another alternative if you are afraid of needles is to use hot pepper electric current, heat, rubberbands possibilities are endless. and this is not even shameful as you can even show it to your friends and they will see it as some respectable stunt or skil or become internet star.

But as we know people still use razor blades precisely because they want to destroy themselves and not just have pain. this feeling of being destroyed is precisely what they carve

Also razor blades is not only method. there are people who do other equally harmful things like being reckless taking credits drinking etc what is also form of self-harm

 No.4384

>>4383
>This is slow suicide. and maybe not as much as physical suicide but suicide of soul, because self-harmer is killing his own future.
Rather than killing their own future, self-harmers may have reasons to believe their future is already over in the first place, which may lead them to self-harm. As I've said, it's a way to cope with despair.

>word regret is kinda inappropriate here because when he was doing that he knew about all consequances and he has safe alternatives. thus entire intent was to this outcome.

There's no reason to pick a safer alternative when you can efficiently damage yourself and feel good at the same time.

People pick whatever's pleasant to them currently and leave immediate trouble and worries for the future. Same deal with self-harm.

Also, knowing about consequences and actually experiencing them are two different things. It always seems abstract in the beginning.

>the rest of your post

Never have I said I don't know about other means of self-harm. I pointed out my own preference and confirmed others have done it.

>there are people who do other equally harmful things like being reckless taking credits drinking etc what is also form of self-harm

Yeah, and that isn't tied to suicide.

 No.4387

>>4384
>>There's no reason to pick a safer alternative when you can efficiently damage yourself and feel good at the same time.

if that was true self-harmers should feel totally fine with their scars and not hide them but as we know opposite is true as those people cut themselves then take extraordinary effort to hide what they done.

Also they carefully pick places that are easy to hide and make quite o lot of planning on how to do it where to hide what razor to use etc. they discuss on the internet where and how to do is what clothes to buy to hide scars and so on.
So they do think about future.

 No.4391

>>4387
>if that was true self-harmers should feel totally fine with their scars and not hide them but as we know opposite is true as those people cut themselves then take extraordinary effort to hide what they done.
Depends on the person, but other people finding out is something you want to avoid.

>So they do think about future.

I'm glad you're acknowledging my point. Taking future into consideration means their intent is to live on, not to die.

 No.4392

>>4391
>>Depends on the person, but other people finding out is something you want to avoid.
How much sense it makes if you want to avoid other people seeing your scars but you do not even take any effort to avoid making those scars in first place

>>I'm glad you're acknowledging my point. Taking future into consideration means their intent is to live on, not to die.

My point was that it is not that kind of suicide where goal is to die immediately, this is suicide where the goal is to increase your own chances of dying which is comparable to other similar ways.
This is very common for people who lose meaning of life.

I guess that self-harmers even dream about wounds getting infected and infection killing them.

 No.4394

>>4352
Honestly have never heard of that, I've always pictured myself on the inflicting end of the fetish I guess.

 No.4398

>>4392
>How much sense it makes if you want to avoid other people seeing your scars but you do not even take any effort to avoid making those scars in first place
Let me quote my previous post.

>People pick whatever's pleasant to them currently and leave immediate trouble and worries for the future. Same deal with self-harm.


>Also, knowing about consequences and actually experiencing them are two different things. It always seems abstract in the beginning.


Consider scars the consequences. Obviously there are people that do it specifically for the scars, rather than the pain/pleasure, but right now that isn't the point.

>My point was that it is not that kind of suicide where goal is to die immediately

In that case it's not actual suicide.

>this is suicide where the goal is to increase your own chances of dying

As long as they're alive, they can be helped by others or even reconsider their situation themselves. They're still waiting for a possible chance to get saved and live.

>I guess that self-harmers even dream about wounds getting infected and infection killing them.

I don't know about their dreams, but the people I know take proper care of their wounds to prevent infections. Myself included.

 No.4399

>>4398
>>As long as they're alive, they can be helped by others or even reconsider their situation themselves. They're still waiting for a possible chance to get saved and live.
Those people are attention whores. so they don't count.
In fact, those people are hated by everyone and they will hardly receive any help from strangers. they will just hurt those who loves them.

>>I don't know about their dreams, but the people I know take proper care of their wounds to prevent infections. Myself included.


Then please explain logically why you do not use another method which does not leave wounds in first place.

what is exactly the goal of this self-harm if we already know that it is not the pain and not death.

 No.4405

My fantasies about being tortured and eaten were definitely more intense when I was suicidal. I even cut meat cunt onto my pelvis and fat pig on my thighs and nearly went through with being eaten IRL with a daddy I was torturing myself for. Now I'm doing better and am content with love bites and light spankings.

 No.4408

>>4399
>Those people are attention whores. so they don't count.
Calling a category of people you dislike attention whores doesn't make them count any less, nor does it make them attention whores. Sure, if we were to ignore everyone that proves my point, you'd be right.

>Then please explain logically why you do not use another method which does not leave wounds in first place.

I enjoy knives. They feel much more personal than other things I can think of. They make me want to cut again and again when I'm at it. I can't imagine having this tie to something like needles. It's refreshing to just sit and wait when it's over. I haven't tried needles, but I don't think it's possible to feel as good when the wounds are exposed to hot water or alcohol. I don't know if enjoying it is logical enough for you, but this is my case.

Yes, the scars are a bother, but it can't be helped. It's fine as long as I cut places that don't restrict me too much.

>what is exactly the goal of this self-harm if we already know that it is not the pain and not death.

Why can't it be pain?

 No.4409

Hey OP.

I'm a 22 year old female and I can say I was pretty similar when I was 17 years old. That's when I started getting an interest in gore and these darker images. I was severely self hating and thinking in the way you said was a coping method I used. I still struggle with self loathing and self image, but I talked to my therapist about this very issue a few weeks ago. I was afraid to admit that I thought about such things like brutal rape, beheading, dismemberment, etc. but therapists (thankfully) are non-judgemental. She said as long as you don't ACT ON IT (which I see you said you won't be, good for you!) it's actually a rather healthy coping mechanism.

If it helps you feel better and you don't actually get hurt in the process while feeling like it furthers you towards feeling better about yourself, I say don't be ashamed or feel like there's anything wrong with you. I'm sorry you're struggling with such tough and painful feelings, but (corny I know) I can promise it gets better as time goes on.

Best of luck to you OP. Much love.

 No.4413

>>4408
>Calling a category of people you dislike attention whores doesn't make them count any less, nor does it make them attention whores. Sure, if we were to ignore everyone that proves my point, you'd be right.

In fact I do not dislike those people who self harm it is exact opposite.
However attention whore type people are very nasty because their goal is not to solve their problem but to make others feel miserable as well using empathy as weapon.
If you do not fall for their trick they usually get furious and start shaming you.


>I enjoy knives. They feel much more personal than other things I can think of. They make me want to cut again and again when I'm at it. I can't imagine having this tie to something like needles. It's refreshing to just sit and wait when it's over. I haven't tried needles, but I don't think it's possible to feel as good when the wounds are exposed to hot water or alcohol. I don't know if enjoying it is logical enough for you, but this is my case.


Didn't you noticed that you did not even mentioned pain here? You clearly focus on the wounds, you want to see them and feel them not cutting process itself.

Also from my own experience (when I accidentally cut myself )I can say that cutting does not hurt at all. Sometimes all what I see is dripping blood from nowhere and upon closer examination there is gaping wound which now needs lots of care and time to heal.

In this way I would even theorize that wound is similar to child or pet and people may be cutting themselves because of loneliness with intent to get something to care about.
Wounds constantly distract your attention and distract you, while for me this is a nuisance, it is most likely why people deliberately cut if they want to be distracted from their psychologic problems.

 No.4422

>>4413
>In fact I do not dislike those people who self harm it is exact opposite.
I'm not talking about all the self-harmers, just the group that I described in my previous post, which you called attention whores. I've got no doubts that you like people that harm themselves.

>Didn't you noticed that you did not even mentioned pain here?

What, you think that mixing open wounds with alcohol doesn't hurt at all? In that case my pain threshold might just be very low.

>You clearly focus on the wounds, you want to see them and feel them not cutting process itself.

You're right to a certain degree, but I feel like you're purposefully ignoring the part where I specifically mention cutting.

>Also from my own experience (when I accidentally cut myself )I can say that cutting does not hurt at all.

I can feel even little cuts just fine, but I guess it depends on the size and depth of the wound.

>In this way I would even theorize that wound is similar to child or pet and people may be cutting themselves because of loneliness with intent to get something to care about.

And if they're looking for something to care about, does it make them closer to hope, or suicide?

 No.4424

>>4422
>>I'm not talking about all the self-harmers, just the group that I described in my previous post, which you called attention whores.

Is this some complain that I don't like attention whores then?

>>What, you think that mixing open wounds with alcohol doesn't hurt at all? In that case my pain threshold might just be very low.


How this is related to cutting? do you cut just to have an opportunity to rub something with alcohol to feel some pain?
if that is the case you could use sandpaper what is far more painfull than cutting and also wounds stay painful for days while they leave no scars.

>>You're right to a certain degree, but I feel like you're purposefully ignoring the part where I specifically mention cutting.


We are discussing purpose of cutting not cutting process itself.
and when you say you enjoy knives main question is again "why".
at least for me, knives associate with death and harm in this context.


>>I can feel even little cuts just fine, but I guess it depends on the size and depth of the wound.

Of course they hurt a little, but as I see cutters usually make quite a lot of cuts at once what proves that it is practically painless.
In this situation what matters is how much sensation you get in exchange of certain amount of permanent harm.
While of course cut wounds to their job, cost/benefit ratio is very bad in comparison to other methods.

>>And if they're looking for something to care about, does it make them closer to hope, or suicide?

In that case ir is not suicide. However this is just one possible theory and it is not necessary applicable to everyone but it is more logical than desire to feel pain.

Also those things do not necessary have to be conscious decisions, because people typically do not even admit reasons of their actions to themselves.
as for example, woman will not admit that she wants asshole boyfriend who treats her like shit but when given choice she will take precisely that type of boyfriend.

 No.4428

I used to pray and beg for my guro killing fantasies to be taken from me. It used to destroy me, and I was a couple years older than you.

All I can really give for advice is just be a good person, spread happiness and eventually you won't feel so bad about your fetishes. Its just fantasy after all. What I do in real life and what I think about when I'm alone are very different, and thats not a bad thing.

 No.4429

>>4424
>Is this some complain that I don't like attention whores then?
Not at all. This is about you generalizing a group of people I mentioned and ignorantly calling each and every one of them attention whores. I'm not a fan of attention whores either and consider the real thing far above them.

>How this is related to cutting?

It's related to pain. The subject I quoted from your previous post.

>when you say you enjoy knives main question is again "why".

I don't know what kind of a reply would satisfy you. Stabbing and cutting are some of my fetishes and knives are my prefered tool. I prefer being on the inflicting side, but I'm fine with taking, and using them on myself made me realize it feels rather pleasant.

>at least for me, knives associate with death and harm in this context.

Harm, definitely. Death, circumstantially.

>cutters usually make quite a lot of cuts at once what proves that it is practically painless.

Or they want to feel even more, no matter how much pain gained from the cut beforehand.

>In this situation what matters is how much sensation you get in exchange of certain amount of permanent harm.

Sure it matters, but not enough to them while cutting. As I said, immediate pleasure > consequences.

>While of course cut wounds to their job, cost/benefit ratio is very bad in comparison to other methods.

It's definitely not a good ratio, but people may be looking specifically for something like this. If cutting weren't as popularized as it is, it's entirely possible they'd choose something more convenient. It's simple, common and you can likely do it with whatever you've already got at home. Other, 'better' methods, simply aren't cutting it.

>In that case ir is not suicide. However this is just one possible theory and it is not necessary applicable to everyone

As long as you understand that some people do it for hope rather than death, I'm content.

 No.4430

>>4429
>I mentioned and ignorantly calling each and every one of them attention whores.

Not at all. I only mentioned specific group of people who do self-harm for attention as attention whores.

>I don't know what kind of a reply would satisfy you.


it woud be explanation which explains what important goals cutting can achieve that other harmless methods cant.

It is all simple there is some goal which you want (it does not need to be rational you may want anything) and then you select methods to achieve that goal and those methods have to be rational and optimal.


>As long as you understand that some people do it for hope rather than death, I'm content.


I probably need to explain again that suicidal desires are not necessary enacted we all sometimes feel as if we want to die or disappear, for me it is not uncommon either but nevertheless we do not enact them because we have strong instinct to live or some other reasons.
However, when you have those thoughts you may start sabotaging yourself in some way. You want world to end or something bad to happen.
People just want something to end their misery while at same time they will do everything to survive when something happens for real.

 No.4432


>>4430

Man, I can say with years of work experience I'm acute psych, you really have no idea what you're talking about and are only succeeding in spreading damaging misinformation to some of the more vulnerable people reading this thread.

As far as "attention whores" go, they don't really exist. You are projecting a naive perspective onto people that are struggling with thoughts and feelings you aren't taking any steps to understand. Maybe you're imagining this platonic ideal of a suburban, emotional teenager that cuts on their Webcam and then you're invalidating their experience because you don't think they have a good enough "reason".

Fuck that, all sorts of people cut and self harm, and it isn't necessarily suicidal or non suicidal. There's an endorphin rush, it can become an addictive and maladaptive way to cope with stress, the disfigurement isn't necessarily some grand plan to shorten life expectancy. Self harm and suicidal ideation are two independent and distinct facets of mental illness that have a unique relationship to each person suffering from them. You can't just generalize an incredibly simple worldview and project it on to individuals suffering from their individual experience. It's just irresponsible.

As far as human beings being willing to do anything it takes to survive, no, not really. Someone planning suicide can anticipate their hesitance and construct a plan that they can't back out of. And some people can be so depressed or psychotic that they'd rather slowly burn to death in a house fire than walk out the door. And yes, a lot of people do want hope and support. They want to escape their depression and suicidality and feel loved and accepted by their families and peers, but some people lose even that. They give up. They really, really believe that their life is better over.

Anyway, like that other person said, just be a good person. The shit on this board is really fucked up. It's shameful and terrifying, but at least I make every attempt to help the vulnerable and spread kindness and contain my loathsome vices to an interior fantasy world. I think the key is to maintain boundaries with your fantasies, never let it bleed into the real world, and never let your sadist or masochist fantasies become real (in the sense that you actually believe that you or other people deserve to be hurt).

It's okay, you know? Life is really not well understood, and society doesn't understand our kinks. Just, for the love of God, don't come out to your vanilla world. It's just a recipe for ostracism and shame.

 No.4434

>>4432
Being psychiatrist does not give much of advantage because you success rate is very low and theories unscientific.
Of course you may have much better statistic than me but you do not do proper analysis of your knowledge anyway.

I rely on simple principle that every action must have a reason unless it is something very simple what can be dome almost unconsciously like cigarette smoking or nail biting where person is doing it without even knowing about it.
This principle is valid for absolutely everyone including most crazy lunatics. even most damaged brain is still completely rational in terms of finding solutions to the problems.

If you claim "endorphin rush" as reason for some action fine, but in that case every action which provides endorphin rush will be equally useful for this purpose. If only razor blade can provide this endorphin rush we have to examine what makes it so fundamentally different from other actions.

By using scientific method you have to split complex problem into separate simple components then identify unique component related to this only problem, which will be the reson for problem.

And this is precisely what I am trying to do unlike psychiatrists who just apply some bogus theory then do something at random in attempt to cure their patient. what often works just because patient gets amused by this expensive entertainment and sometimes even his problems can be solved.


>They want to escape their depression and suicidality and feel loved and accepted by their families and peers, but some people lose even that.


If this is true, it is very easy to fix.
just find another lonely person and arrange date for them
2 problems will be solved in one shoot.
but as ve know this does not work and this means that those people have different goals.
I would guess that their goals are either evil or shameful or too grandiose or self-contradictory and those people can't admit them in public or even to themselves or there is simply nothing they can do.

If you read more than last post you woud know that I do not say that all self harmers are atention whores, but only those who do it as way to get atention (help) because they do not want help at all they want only atention. If you want help you must be ready to accept it in form of solution to your problem not as emotional support and useless empathy.
If you got nail sticking in your hand you must let me to remove it not just show it to me and demand me to fell bad for your pain.
Presenting your problem and refusing to take help is attention whoring. If you do not want help then put fake smile on your face and say you are all fine.

>Life is really not well understood, and society doesn't understand our kinks.

if you use scientific method you can understand absolutely everything there is nothing in the universe what cannot be undertood. And usually everything is much more simple than it looks like.

 No.4527

that's odd. everyone has self pov guro fantasies.

I like to tear apart people myself. Why be victim?

 No.4539

You people are a bunch of weird fuckos!

 No.4543

>>4539
That statement is as pointless as your life. And all our lives for that matter.

 No.4787

>>4543

were it pointless you wouldnt have written anything.

 No.4790

Why does everything have to be an argument?

 No.4792

>>4787
Just because it was pointless, doesn't mean I wouldn't have commented. People think that you need a point, a purpose to do things or to live, but in reality purposes/meaning are as real as anyone likes them to believe they are...just as with god. That doesn't mean determinism takes a break without purpose and nothing ever gets done.



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