I think self hate is more likely to cause you to fantasize about torturing other people who did nothing wrong to you.
If you want to be tortured yourself, I think this is attention seeking and especially because you fantasy is about you being tortured by an attractive female. You just want her attention when you are lonely.
that's very interesting, why do you think that self hate makes you wanting to inflect pain on others, doesn't it seem more "logical" for it be self reflected? that's how it seems to me, I hate myself because X reasons therefore I need to be punished.
the part about wanting my torturer to be an attractive female due to loneliness and attention seeking , does make a lot of sense to me. I desire the affection of a beautiful woman, but since I'm not having it in my current situation and feeling unworthy of her positive attention, I seek the negative one
Self hate is not related to punishment, because if makes no sense to punish someone for failing to win competition or for being to short or ugly
so you hate yourself for not being whom you want to be.
and then your desire to hurt other people may be because you either want to boost self esteem that way , or because you want to punish them for forcing you to be whom you don't want to be. or because of attention whoring when you want other people to fell just like you feel yourself (this is what self hammers also do).
Even if people hurt themselves in that situation they are not actually torturing themselves but some piece of themselves like some guy may torture his dick but not himself.
Considering your desire, yes if you feel unworthy you just don't know how else you an be useful to that female and why else she could provide attention to you. It not just negative attention but if woman is making great effort to torture you then she must have strong feelings for you and you are in control of those feelings.
I'm very curious why do you exempt self hatred as a reason for punishment? you are right, it doesn't make sense to punish oneself for failure, but it happens. for example, some families in their twisted means of motivating a child may punish him/her for being or doing bad, I'm assuming this is one case of many where punishment is a learned response to not being good enough.
as for the desire to hurt others, I shamefully admit that on days when I feel bad about myself I do get off of videos of people, again mainly attractive women, getting humiliated,hurt, tortured and even killed. it does provide me with a temporary boost of self esteem and sense of of sexual pleasure that is followed with a lot of shame and guilt afterwards.
I'm not sure if it's better or worse, but the idea of being hurt by someone doesn't invoke guilt as much as the thought of me torturing another.
do think it's possible that both the desire to inflect pain onto oneself or others stems from the same source, self hatred. but the main difference is do we blame ourselves or others for our unhappiness?
Because like you said yourself purpose of punishment is to modify future behavior. Unless we talk about that nonsense of punishment as payment for crime n which case it is like some religious sacrifice.
so punishing yourself makes no sense because it is much more logical to divers that effort to the real issue.
If you are very strongly indoctrinated that if you hurt yourself you will somehow pay for your sins and get rid of guilt then you may be doing it just to get rid of guilt.
Hurting other people makes much more sense because you simply assume that they are guilty for your problems or they are guilty just because they do not care.
If you have desires to hurt others to boost self esteem then yes you probably have some self hate too.
But I just wonder how it is all justified, as what do you think and feel when watching some woman being torture or fantasize about torturing someone
I agree that same source can lead to both desire to be hurt and desire to hurt other, however I think it is not self hatred itself but something what causes self hatred
self hatred cannot exist without reason, there must be something what you feel wrong about yourself and what cannot be fixed.
ant then you can chose what you will hate, yourself or something else.
however if you only have desire to be humiliated yourself it is likely caused by some other reaosn
I do not think so, but I do hold some sort of self-hate and have massive self-harm fantasies. Then again, I have virtually every fetish under the sun and for as many reasons.
They don't, I like pain because I'm a sadomaso and it turns me on. I don't have any self-hate and I like myself.
I wouldn't even describe my masochistic desires as self harm. I don't view it as harming myself. I view it as pleasurable kinky fun. I have no desire to be harmed, I have desire for painful and humiliating things, because they feel so good and sexy.
It's an interesting figure of speech, self harm, it sounds like something some prude would say. Lol, didn't religious idiots call masturbation "self harm"? In fact I remember that they did do that. I'd rather have it called torture fantasies or masochistic fantasies.
There's probably a fundamental difference between us. For you this is self harm, and a way to release stress and you blame yourself for weakness or something. For me this is a form of masochistic pleasure, something I fully accept, a kinky game to make myself feel good because I deserve the best. A bit of it is also sadism, I get some sadistic pleasure from doing painful things to myself, as well as masochistic pleasure. But it all centers around me liking myself and doing fun, nice things to myself. The sort of pleasures which a lot of other people simply can't comprehend, the pleasure of pain.
Imam your complementary pair, because When I see someone in pain I see if as form of fun.
And I also do not have any hate for myself or other people.
probably yes, in short.
I was more stressed recently and as a result yes I have been thinking more about this kind of stuff. I would ideally be a female being tortured by a male but sometimes you have to deal with things lol.
I dunno tho I normally dont want to actually you know... do it for real, because no one ofc even rly likes me especially women so i end up just writing or drawing about it.
this actually made me a bit better at drawing?
rape children mmm...
I don't think so. I love my dick but I also love fantasies where I betray him, or he betrays me. Like he's inside something that is slowly digesting him but the pleasure of him being slowly eaten is so good that I keep him there and fuck him deeper to coat the digestive juices over him and make his flesh tingle while he throbs desperately.
I think it's actually because I love my dick so much that I get off on others enjoying and using him, or something like that.
I really don't think so, for me, because I'm the opposite. I tend to be more sexual/have those fantasies more when I'm riding high. I have to be in a good enough state of mind where I can be like, "I'm fucked up, but I don't give a shit. I don't necessarily want to be like this, but I'm gonna power through it." If I'm down on myself I don't... honestly I don't really jack off? That's not sexy fun time, that's sad/angry time. Like sexuality and mood are pretty intertwined with me- I can't be upset and sexy at the same time. I actually told my boyfriend once, "If we're in a fight and you want it stop, just fuck me."
Which... did not go over well. Sometimes there are things you should just think and not say.
...I might have said 'rape me'. I was young and stupid.